Muslims Meet Influencer Culture

In this episode of Yalla & Yap, hosts Lena, Mariam, Manal, and Deanna discuss their personal journeys with social media and their varied perspectives on the role of Muslim influencers today. 

From the early days of platforms like AOL Instant Messenger to the rise of influencers on Instagram and TikTok, they delve into the ways social media has shaped and influenced their lives. They explore the responsibilities of influencers, particularly hijabi influencers, and the balance between content creation and Islamic values. The conversation also touches on the effects of social media on mental health, the complexities of maintaining authenticity, and the importance of maintaining a moral compass in digital spaces. 

Tune in for an engaging and insightful discussion on the dynamics of influence, identity, and community.

00:00 Introduction and Hosts' Backgrounds

01:32 Early Social Media Experiences

06:55 Defining Influencers

08:13 Impact of Influencers on Children

12:54 Rise of Muslim Influencers

21:36 Influencers and the Palestine Issue

30:38 Navigating Influencer Ethics

31:17 Moral Compass in Social Media

32:13 Balancing Joy and Sensitivity

34:12 Hijabi Influencers and Responsibility

36:34 The Impact of Social Media Criticism

38:12 Personal Growth and Social Media

39:26 The Role of Influencers in Shaping Values

48:17 The Birth of Our Podcast

50:34 Final Thoughts and Reflections

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Hosts' Backgrounds
• 1:32 Early Social Media Experiences
• 6:55 Defining Influencers
• 8:13 Impact of Influencers on Children
• 12:54 Rise of Muslim Influencers
• 21:36 Influencers and the Palestine Issue
• 30:38 Navigating Influencer Ethics
• 31:17 Moral Compass in Social Media
• 32:13 Balancing Joy and Sensitivity
• 34:12 Hijabi Influencers and Responsibility
• 36:34 The Impact of Social Media Criticism
• 38:12 Personal Growth and Social Media
• 39:26 The Role of Influencers in Shaping Values
• 48:17 The Birth of Our Podcast
• 50:34 Final Thoughts and Reflections

Transcript

This transcript is auto generated

 Hi everyone and welcome to Yalla & Yap. My name is Lena and I'm here with Mariam, Manal, and Deanna. have a fun topic today moving away from the more serious political and election discussion episodes.  Let's start with  learning a little bit more about ourselves. Let's start with you, Maryam.

You had a stint as influencer. going to talk a little bit about that.

wouldn't go that far. Um, so yeah, um, I'm Maryam and, uh, I was born and raised in the U. S. and raised specifically in the DFW area, for seven years I lived in Gaza. And, um, as someone that was born and raised here, people kept asking me how I was able to move to Gaza. And I, um, started an Instagram page and my handle was mom to expat twins. And I was sharing my life in Gaza and the beauty of Gaza vicariously through my twin daughters. Um, So, um, yeah. I think I thought I was going to become an influencer, but not the influencer we might be discussing more. So today I wasn't trying to influence anybody into anything other than, um, loving Gaza. um, since then, since the seven years I've moved back to Dallas, I have also now a little boy and, you know, happily living. where I grew up and trying to them, uh, you know, navigate the world of between Gaza and now Dallas. How about you, Diana? 

I think my introduction to social media is so deep cut because I grew up with like, a little chalet here in Dallas, where we all got into our own little social media websites, um, Neopets and RuneScape and just different ways to log online and stay connected. But, um, I was born and raised here. I'm a full Palestinian and, um, I currently work in the healthcare field. grew up with, you know, I didn't have family here. So, you know, we grew up with a lot of my family friends who dads went to college with my dad. So we all just stayed really close. And, um, yeah, social media at that point was used to just stay connected online. So that's my introduction to social media.  How about you, Lena?

 Okay, well,  I was born and raised here in the U. S. Actually, I was born in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. So I'm actually not a native Texan, but I moved here when I was like one. So technically, you know, I've been here most of my life. I did have a brief stint as a blogger when I moved to Palestine, when I lived in Ramallah, Novosibirsk for about two years as an aspiring journalist, so yes, I, started my career as a journalist. Then I went into corporate communications and I work for a hospitality company and I also have a Arabic language school that I, work on on the weekends. So I work 7 days a week, so that's pretty much the definition of my life right now. but I'm very excited to do this podcast because it kind of brings me back to my journalism days. So I love that we're, we covered some serious topics like the election, but I'm also excited about doing kind of more lighter, fun things, , like today's episode on the influencers, , specifically, , Muslim influencers. I have three kids, eight six and a six month old.  What about you Manette?

So I was born in the Middle East and I have spent most of my years here in Dallas growing up. Um, hence my Texan accent, but, uh, I first joined social media in 2006. I was, um, I was in college. I was 21 years old and I felt the peer pressure to join and just stay connected with college classmates. Um, never intended to be a social media influencer by all means.

Um, you know, I don't spend much time on it now, but, um, I kind of had times in my life where I spend more time on social media than other times. But, um, I have three kids and they're all under the age of 11 and they keep me pretty busy.

All right So tell me your age by the first social media you had.

AOL Instant Messenger.

What was your aim account name?

I don't even remember. I'm like, I've been trying to remember this whole time. Um, It, it must have been something like a little angel something, something along that line. Everything was L A L. I know. 2K something.

So I was on AOL. And mine, um, sorry, I jumped right in medium. Um, I was on AOL messenger and my name was like crazy girl, 85, my birth year. And, uh, I would log in and I would have to listen to the little dial up. And that was like the most exciting part of my day.

When you had, um, I don't know if you guys had this, but like for a while, there were certain amount of hours that you had, I think for like free dial up and then after that, like it cut disconnects. Did any of you guys have that?

I had it where you could either be on a landline or internet. So we had to take turns. Like if mama needs to take a call,

You have to get

you know, off the internet.

Yeah,

That's, that's, that's the that I grew up in.

I think we, we all had that. But I feel like if

Yeah,

social media, we did say AOL instant messenger, which I very much had and was putting my statuses on there and like, very was very, you know,

and that that was your way of being like petty or passive aggressive if you didn't want to confront anyone with anything

A

Does anyone

AOL you could do that. It was I thought it was like

I

had that

had both I had MSN I had MSN with like my family friends and I had AOL for my school friends and I remember the popular like quotes we would put on there realize Realize real lies.

I

guys remember that?

I never heard of that You Really?

was

Really

say that, so Faha producer just said MSN, family and overseas folks? A hundred percent. 

 I was on MSN

Wait is MSN the hotmail one?

Yeah.

that's the one.

Yeah. Yeah, that's true.

could, um, ring someone's chat and like the whole screen would shake like the MSN

yeah. Yeah. Yeah yeah,

my gosh, flashbacks. Oh goodness.

Yeah, that's crazy.

So how would you guys define influencer? 

Good question.

 An influencer to me as someone who specifically creates content in order to lead people or to tell people what to do or how to act or what to wear or what to buy.

The actual textbook definition is social phenomenon where people use social media to gain a following and influence on opinions and behaviors and their products.

 on your point of influencers. It's very funny. My daughter told me today, she was like, mama, do you know the, we went to a park and she goes, I saw a lady at the park that looked like this YouTuber that I know. And I was like, Oh, really? And she goes, yeah, she looks like this YouTuber. I know. And when she was telling me, I was like, Oh wow, that does give off YouTuber vibes.

Like she did look so in, um, put together all to then say,

hmm.

when we were, um, When Mr. Beast, which is a very famous YouTuber, by the way, if you

Yes. Yes.

Mr. Beast, he, he actually spoke up about Palestine a couple of times. So we went out and we bought like a sweatshirt from Mr. Beast. I bought chocolates from Mr.

Beast for the girl's birthday party. Like. You know, they're exposed to these influencers. 

Yes, kids are super impressionable and that's what makes these influencers a really

hmm. Silence.

Um, just yesterday we were at Target and my daughter was like, Oh, I want to get a Taki. like, what? She's like, yeah, the Taki is like, the red one is supposed to be the best one. I want to try it. like, I never bought that.

Silence.

I never brought, just never appealed to me, so I never bought it. And I was like, Oh, now I have to get this because she saw it in some influence. Like, it's just marketing. It's just like a commercial.

Back then when we were kids, it was like, Oh, Barbie, you know, on, on

commercials.

Exactly.

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah.

had my eye on for years.

Oh, yeah. Me too. That was the best. Mm hmm. Mm

nine. I remember this

because I waited until I was allowed to use one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

those infomercials that we would get like on Nickelodeon and sell like the crazy thing that you couldn't get unless you called the 1 800 number and like, I never bought and my parents never bought for us. 

But I think that it was like, it's always been part of the capitalistic culture, right. Just trying to sell, sell things. Right.

to that point, this is why I'm a little bit critical of, influencers and I say it, and with the kindness with all kindness, and not trying to, um, make our Muslim influencers that I've done a lot of work to get to where they are, uh, to make them out to be something horrible. when you get paid money, you sign a contract to, even if you vetted the product and you love it, but like you sign a contract to then promote a product, you are a mouthpiece for a product you. And so sometimes to me, it's like you almost sold your soul to these. which we discovered during the Palestine issue, right, because a lot of these influencers have sold their name, have sold their brand, have made connections with these big name products, and were so hesitant to say anything about Palestine, or they did say, and then they were like, hey, we got to go back to regular, um, our regular programming now, because that's how I make my money. And then to me, it was like, Oh, that's, I think when I realized how much influencers were selling me things rather than me, just kind of enjoying their content for the sake of enjoying it,

But I feel like that's kind of what it turned into initially, like even on Instagram, it, 

was really, truly a social media, right? Like I was going there so that I can socialize with my friends, uh, kind of keep up with them, see their families. And one got married, one went to this country, one did this, you know, like it was how I was able to keep up with my friends because right now when you're busy, like this is kind of the most efficient way to keep up. Um, but then. Maybe overnight, I feel like it just turned into this just basic like just constantly like you're being exposed to all these different ads that are algorithm based and end up shopping a lot of the times because of

Well, let's like kind of go back and run through all the, like what's the. We, you know, where this may have started. 

I don't know if you guys were ever into the like I wasn't really big on youtube except for like the beauty and makeup scene. So and fashion. There you go So there were a lot of michelle fawn was literally

was the

household name at one point, I think. She was OG.

Kandi Johnson? She was a makeup

I did. I watched Candy Johnson. I did. Yeah.

Um, she was one of my favorites. Um, there were, yes. And then there was like Dulce Candy. There's like so many others. Um, and with them, they also gained a lot of following from strangers too. So you saw that phenomenon grow.

But

Um, I think what was,

or was that in facebook because I feel like facebook was much more focused on the social right keeping up with the connections and stuff because

Yes, that was like more personal, but YouTube was more just viewing and then, um, and then you had Instagram, which I think people like from YouTube would post what they would have on their YouTube, but they'd post it on their Instagram.

And a lot of those YouTubers also had blogs. Which also was the thing too, people would follow each other on blogs and then post their outfits and vlogging was a thing because of YouTube. So instead it was  a video capturing your day  but then they started making money on YouTube, which was interesting.

It's like, now you know that these people are getting paid, but let's for the ads and like monetizing on these posts. So it was actual strong incentive to keep pursuing this. And a lot, you found a lot of people actually quitting their jobs, uh,  not finishing college, just like pursuing this as their career

but I think what was most interesting to see, which would be more relevant to us was seeing Muslims entering the scene on YouTube. had a lot of these OG influencers. Um, but I think the question of, was about their influence with regards to lifestyle, dress, consumerism,

I think was the

the fashion was huge, um, which. To be honest, I still feel like it was for like someone who wants to dress nicely, you know, like you get to see, and it's nice because it's like, at first I think with like with us growing up, a lot of the, the advertisements and fashion influence and everything was on like 17 magazine, right?

Like we didn't have enough. Right. Like people blogging, it was hard to relate to. So it was like, you could have, you could separate the world.

and

Um,

as a kid with fashion, like we were going to Aeropostale and buying guys

Boy stuff. Yes. Yeah.

under it. 

Yeah, basically

oh, my God.

But I guess like, that's why I say like the influencers, especially the hijabi influencers, which a lot of which have strayed away from that. But anyways, the hijabi influencers that started on YouTube, once it, the influencing aspect became a thing and we ended up having a market share. Companies started then creating products for the hijabi, right? Because they realized there were so many of us that were watching things. And all of a

Like Nike. Right. They were the first ones.

But I feel like that was more recent though. Right. That was like a lot more recent

but all to say, I guess that I understand. value

benefit. The value. Yeah. Yeah.

It's just like, if they didn't do that front work in the beginning where were just giving us a space, right? Um, I don't think we would be where we are now, where you find hijabi friendly clothes, almost everywhere you go, the more modest, um, uh, outfits, the hijab, Lululemon has a, has an athletic hijab, you know, like it's everywhere. They didn't realize, I think how much of a market share we had until people, an influencer started on YouTube. But that shift, like you guys said, it happened so quickly and then it became,

it's no longer we're working to get a market share. It's like now you have a market share. How are you gonna monetize that? How in order to become, to continue being an 

Mm hmm.

you need to monetize that share and you have to continue to be a mouthpiece for different brands.



So how do we feel about like, just, you know, It being a career now, like what would you guys do if your kids said, I want to be an influencer? Like I want to make money. They make a lot of money guys. Do you guys know how much they do?

You don't

Oh,

How about, I laugh,

have a school and I ask the students All the time. Okay. What do you want to be? Youtuber i'll be famous

Oh, wow.

yeah, YouTube,

Wow.

yeah, my daughter said that,

a basketball player like, you know, sure

just interesting that it's like a career now. Yeah.

mm hmm,

think

mm hmm, mm

um, you can take

What

on

101?

basically, but no, not that. But like the influence of social media,

hmm,

like, how to, um, take advantage of,

that's crazy, mm hmm, mm hmm, mm

Yeah,

Um,

and just like Lina said, it's like when someone says they want to be a basketball player or a soccer player or whatever, like it's not, not everybody that starts that career will become successful.

And so I will always say what our parents said, you still need a degree to fall back on, do whatever you want in life, but get a degree and fall back on that. Um, and it'll only make you stronger. So like, if, what is the, again, marketer, right? Diana. So if you want to be a successful influencer, you probably want to understand how to become a good marketer because influencing or YouTuber, because in the end of the day, you're need to market yourself. Um, so then it would go down that rabbit hole, right? With your kid, but it's

hmm, mm

YouTubers and they don't understand it. They think it's easy money. They don't understand. Oh, they think I don't have to go to college cause I want to become a YouTuber.

hmm.

So there's also a lot of very concerning things, you know, yes, a lot of kids are saying they want to be YouTubers, but I'm specifically thinking of the younger kids, I want to say early elementary, because they're seeing it as fun, you know, they think it's entertaining. But as they get older, when they get closer to their teen years, it's actually extremely detrimental to a lot of the mental health of, uh, kids.

And even as adults, um, it could be very detrimental to how they feel about their self worth, their self esteem. If they're struggling with, you know, their insecurities about how they look or, or how much money they have, or how much money their family has, uh, you know, what their capabilities are, if they're not as smart, um, because people only, you know, Show the best right?

Like no one's really showing their entire home. There's not that context in the social media They're showing short

a highlight reel.

how they look. They're so fashionable. They're so beautiful It's heavily filtered, know, but that's not again like Uh echo chamber. You're not really seeing the reality

it's interesting because there are some people that actually prefer TikTok over Instagram because they feel like TikTok is a little bit more real because people are not afraid to not look glammed up, they record little snippets of their chaotic lives, um, they try to be really relatable.

Like Instagram is very much like it has to look very aesthetically pleasing all the time. And so it's less relatable. 

And it, it can be very deceiving and it does lead to alarming numbers when it comes to depression among teenagers,  

Yeah, from the ages 14 to 18, suicide is the third leading cause of death, and so it accounts for 20 percent of the deaths.

That's, that's really bad. And, and I don't know if you guys, did you guys ever watch The Social Dilemma? I think it was back in the pandemic days is when it came out or maybe post pandemic. It was a Netflix documentary.

Yeah, I watched it. It was interesting because they talk about the

dopamine release that you would get after you got a like and how Instagram would mess with the algorithm. If you hadn't touched your phone in so many minutes, it would push out a notification to you so that you would be more so you would be prompted to go back and open up the app.

Yeah, and it's it said what the average number of times a person opened up the app during the day. Um, you know what they were doing. It's crazy. The science behind it. It's not, it's not random.

 And they know how to capitalize off of that. It's really scary. And then it's, it's, you know, danger to the consumer and then also danger to the, the creator too, because they start to get, this  feeling whenever they get a lot of likes, even like just day to day people, even if you're not an influencer for some people, it does affect them.

How many likes they get on a post.

Oh,

Um,

like a validation of their self

it's exactly, exactly. So yeah, it does all attribute to the, this issue of mental health. 

Another really dangerous thing about social media, TikTok is the misinformation. Um, as you know, a trained journalist, like this is something that especially bothers me, which is why did not get TikTok. I just recently got on TikTok because apparently everybody's on it and they keep sending me videos on TikTok and I'm like, I don't have it.

I don't have it. And then I thought I was like, Oh, well, let me just get it. And you guys actually convinced me. Oh, there's a lot of good things, especially in regards to Palestine on TikTok. So that convinced me. And then I did get on board for that reason. But, um, 70%. Gen Z get their news from TikTok. mean,

Yeah.

crazy, you know, because we moved away from actual newspapers to television news, to social media as

It's like our own little form of Fox News. It's like TikTok for Gen Z.

but it's even more hyper custom to you.

Yes.

this in the last episode, like the algorithm is like, okay, this person obviously likes, you know, uh, anti genocide content.

So it finds you all the people that are making content that are anti genocide. So you are under this illusion that, wow, there's so many people in America that are against the genocide.

against it. Yeah, that's so true.

In reality, only 2 percent actually said that.

But It's not just gen Z. Unfortunately, it's not just Gen Z. I see it all the time within the our generation.

There were a lot of things that were going on with when it came to photos to Philistine and then social media in general was you had some influencers who are lifestyle bloggers um Not really talking about it too much. And then a lot of them did because, you know, their viewers were like, Hey, you know, are you just not going to, are you just going to pretend like this isn't happening? And so some of them would say stuff and some of them, uh,  actually kind of switched their platform and then just to just, just talk about photo scene.

Um, that was really frustrating for me. And that was a time in which I actually unfollowed a lot of influencers that I had been following

Same.

days. Because we are who make them who they are, but they

Mm hmm.

to us.

Yeah.

and they were very distasteful. And so when people were sharing their homes that they had just moved into and in that same time. For example, on a personal level, um, we had just lost our home in Gaza that we had memories in. And I didn't like, I left without having full, full closure from, and, and that's different even because for me, I still have a home here in the U. S. That was, you know, that was my first home, the home that we built right out of our marriage.

But, um, Other people didn't have any other homes and they were starting to live in tents and then you're sitting here showing me your home that you like this million dollar home that you could not have had if you did not us as a following for them to continue to be so

Truth.

I think what I got even more upset about is seeing my mutual friends continue to follow them because that then shows you that despite the fact that we. Yes, our sympathetic to the genocide and yes, we are so pro Palestine and we are upset about what's happening and the end of the day. On a personal level, we also want to have the nicest stuff in our homes, and we want our homes to look picturesque, and we want to know where to get the next best outfit, and the next best Amazon, um, you know, viral set, and so people continue to follow them, because they really depend on, on that, and, um, That was a, that was a changing point for me.

For me it was like I'm unfollowing all of you because in the end of the day I can't relate to you anymore. 

Yeah, there was, um, there was someone that I was following for years since the beginning of time. She was an OG, an OG influencer. And When I noticed, I think it was back in 2021, when things were going really bad in Gaza then, was not nearly as bad as today, but it was still on fire and not a peep. In fact, she was blocking certain words in her comments so that we wouldn't bring it up, basically. And I was shocked. She's Muslim. Her viewers are asking her to say something because there isn't, you know, what, what's, what's part of full of seeing what, and why we stress about talking about photo scene so much

is because it is heavily censored, heavily, heavily censored when you're an influencer, a Muslim influencer, especially you have a platform and you can.

Reach people that the average everyday person cannot reach. And you know, it's imperative that we spread proper information, that we speak about what's happening in photo scene, because there's so much disinformation purposely put out there so much propaganda and you're not using your platform in that way.

Like when I, I remember just feeling so betrayed, like, Oh my gosh, dude, like I really thought we had the same values. 



You know, Deanna, one of the things that I really, really got me during and made me unfollow, um, some influencers, like I get it.

If you need to advertise something, because now you've left your jobs and this is your only way of making money. Um, But for people to be recording themselves eating, like there's, you're not, I mean, you're not telling me what you're eating. You're making this food and then you're like chomping and you're literally, and then they will have behind the scenes footage.

Like one influencer, her brother will record her eating in

mm hmm,

the dinner table. And I'm like, how disgusting is it? First of all, you're not connecting with people. Like, what's the point of Ramadan? But like, how disgusting is it for you to be recording yourself eating? You're not getting paid for it.

It's just content you could have chosen to overlook in a time in which people are starving

And

in Palestine.

Mottaz people to stop doing that, to stop wedging the horrifying content in between the soft, um, You know, the, the get ready with me's and the food, because they see that the people in Gaza see that they have access to the same internet as us. They can see what you're posting.

Diana, can you, can you provide context? Sorry, I'm

okay. Sorry.

I don't follow any influencers. So what does that mean? get ready with me. 

Get ready with me is basically, they'll talk through how they're getting ready. makeup and outfit. Um, or they're prepping for something. They'll do their whole fate, like morning face routine.

Some are like, get ready with me to go to bed. Get ready with me to go to this concert. Get ready with me to go shopping and get ready with me to do my errands today. So it's like just literally little lifestyle.

I ask what's the psychology that makes someone follow that? For me, this is kind of beyond my capacity to understand. Why do I have to follow someone on how to get ready to go to bed?

no, no, it's more like the yalla and yap, like, let's do X, Y, and Z and yap. So it's like, people are, let me do my face routine and tell you about all the things I'm going to do today.

Well, some of them share stories, but some of them actually don't. They just literally just jump in. Yeah, they'll just do it in ASMR type thing.

Yeah, ASMR, oh my

ASMR is another whole thing.

What is that?

Lena.

Oh my god, how do you not know ASMR, Lina? You're

Manal, do you know? Is it just me who

Yeah, I know.

to me.

No, this is not an age

And I'm older than you, so,

choose

know.

these things,

So ASMR stands for Autonomous sensory meridian response. So there's a phenomenon that some people actually find fascinating when they, talk really close to the microphone and they whisper and like you hear little things. So ASMR cooking can be like the sizzling, uh, sauteing the chopping of the onions.

They'll take your nails

and, like, click it on the top of a bottle

yeah, it's like a whole thing. 

But, uh, to answer your question about like. why would somebody want to watch someone get ready? I feel like it's this whole culture of like living vicariously through other people.

 Some people get inspired by their routine for some people to To watch that they sort of like mirror that behavior and like, Oh, I'm inspired to go do my own nightly routine. I'm inspired to do my own, uh, morning routine. So, uh, But I think when it came to like Gaza, it was, it's like, yes, yeah, you live in this, like, really, mashallah, mashallah, like you have a very, know, a lot of blessings, right? But also please be mindful of your viewers. 



Like when it comes to Palestine and your viewers, uh, being Muslim and the content they're seeing about Gaza when they're scrolling through the content about their people getting Dismembered, brutally bombed, buried under the rubble, um, children crying because they've lost their parents, and then you scroll and you see a Get Ready With Me. From an influencer using Zionist products. It it's dystopian. It's disrespectful. Yes, this is your job,

but have respect for the people that are following you, the muslims and understand what they're watching. 

So from from, like, outside again, because I speak as someone who doesn't really follow these people, so I didn't really see this, right? Like I just And that's it. Um, if that's who they are,

then that's who they are.

Like the people that chose

not 

Okay. 

unfollow

them, 

Okay.

them. And there are people who continue to follow them.

Yeah. And they still follow them. So they're just being who they are. And I feel like I'd rather have that than people pretending that they care and kind of hold off on not doing it. Like, Oh, if I do it,

Be upset. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's like do do what like

to do. So I'd rather them

exactly and that's what some a lot of that conversation was also, um, You can't bully them into caring. You can't bully them into, um, stopping what they're doing because you ask them to do it. Yeah. Mm-Hmm.

but it's because they're so like, that's their job.

Mm-Hmm.

I'm not saying that, because I think

that they came out and they said, this is our job. Like, this is how we make our money. And that to me is even more frustrating because I'm like, if this is how you make your money, I am your end customer that's going to then buy what you

Mm-Hmm.

what to be influenced.

And you're not, Being sensible, then I'm just going to unfollow you. But what's even more frustrating is seeing your mutual friends that continue to follow. So again,

we go back to this world of, I, like sometimes some of us are more connected and more aware than others. and some people will continue to follow these influencers despite the fact that they. are not like they'll justify it 

I mean, for some people it's just an escape. Like, you know, it's like, it's just that escape. Like they're just Yeah.

a moral, there's, there's, we go back to the point

of,

Yeah.

a moral

Yeah. Mm-Hmm,

are losing our moral compass, then we are going into the dangers of what it means to be an influencer and what it means to be influenced and what it means to be following these people.

If we lose that moral compass, what do we have, especially as Muslims? Like, I'm not holding people that are non Muslim accountable because everyone to each of their own, I am knowledgeable about the Muslim aspect of it. And if you've lost that moral compass, then I'm sorry, like there's a problem.

Like if one part of the Muslim ummah is aching, then the

That's true.

is aching.

That's how it

That's true.

They were making jokes about them breaking their fast They would be eating if Todd like a few minutes before it was actually time and they would make memes about it And then they would hear the Adhan and say oh my god we broke our fast early and they would joke about eating this food or they would joke about Their alarm clock going off late and then they wake up just a few minutes before it's time to start fasting and they would be Shoving food in their mouth.

I mean how disrespectful is the full law?

But also, you know, we can also go back and forth about, you know, trying to find joy in such a really, really, really depressing time. Right.

And people do a post our wedding, do we not, you know, so that's a whole other topic, 

I think that was a very delicate balance

It is a very delicate balance. Yeah.

all these horrible things and then life does continue, we're like,

we're still living here. Yeah, Yeah,

Yeah. Mm hmm. like, you know, I'm, I feel like, I don't know if I should go to the bazaar and, and post, you know, post my, my business.

And I was like, why not? She's like, because of Ghazda. You know, like, so I feel like even non influencers, regular people were just not sure of how to navigate social media anymore

because they don't want to come off of that.

you posted, I remember you did like, um, it your gender reveal in Cancun? And 

Oh,

You, but you, but you were thoughtful because you actually like wrote a couple of lines of like, that there's, you wrote, I remember this vividly because I remember thinking to myself, Oh, like Lena's saying, that our brothers and sisters are in pain, but at the same time, I want to share a little bit of my joy with you all. Like it's, it's a hard balance.

is a hard balance. And I had family in Gaza affected by it too. You know? So, um, so I understand like obviously influencers have a different responsibility, but just day to day. And I remember some people, and I always kind of wondered like, if this was just an excuse where they were like, Oh, I'll go with them break and then they'll post a

Well it does actually help with the algorithm uh, unfortunately it does. I hate to admit it, but it actually does.

So these influencers with these platforms you know, I wish that they would do a little bit more.

I know that there were some that have completely shifted their platform, which is excellent. And they've made it just purely about Gaza. And that's awesome. And I think that there is that benefit.

there are new influencers that sprouted because of 

And I think there is a benefit to having a following, having a platform. There is responsibility there.  Like your viewers are Muslim,

Islamic value, you know, I mean, if you are a Muslim influencer, you need to hopefully be  upholding some Islamic values and  it's not appropriate to be boasting about things that takes me down a different rabbit hole, and actually one of the reasons I kind of go back and forth about like being an influencer, like, let's say you're a hijabi influencer.

Okay, we all do our best to become the best hijabis out there. And we do, it's our daily struggle. Right. But like if I am, for example, doing a how to video. I'm not hating on anybody, but a how to video on a turban. Okay. But I know Islamically there are rules to hijab and you should cover your neck. But then I influence like 3000 people to go out and wear a turban.  Am I then to be held accountable for the people that I influence to potentially do something, whether I believe that it's right or wrong, but like, are we looking at that end game? Right? Um, to me, that's, that's another thing. Like, if can get

I think it depends on how you do it.

So, I mean, I've seen as a new hijabi, I didn't know how to wear a hijab. And I told medium, she was joking. She said, look at my dad. She looks like she's been wearing a job for forever. And I told her, my response was it's because I've looked it up on Tik TOK of how to do it.

And, and I think it depends on how you do it. So I've seen the Tik TOKers where they show their neck and I've seen the Tik Well, where they will blur out their neck. So they purposely like put a little emoji over their neck area and cover it. So, um, there are definitely people who are taking advantage of their influence and I think they're trying to make it excusable behavior.

But, um, you know, uh, at the end of the day, it's between them and Allah. 

At the end of the day, it's, you have to make a choice. You a responsibility. 

You can 

Yeah, Yeah.

that

Yeah. 

you and you follow. I mean, there are people who wear

Mm hmm.

and there are people who wear the traditional style and there are people who wear kind of a Salah

Mm hmm.

like,

and they all

like the prayer

they all have followings, like, you

they do. They do.

again, not to like hate on anybody that wears a turban. I'm not, that's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying that there's a level of responsibility. I feel as Muslims, if anything, like there's an extra layer. And this is a controversy that was on TikTok not too long ago where this like girl went off and was like, You all think you're doing hijab right and you're doing it wrong.

And like, she went, Hey, wire. Like she went, I don't know, Deanna, did you see

I absolutely saw that video.

And she, I don't, I don't necessarily like the way she did it, but then it speaks to the Gen Z ers that really just speak their mind and they don't care,

it actually angered me. I thought it was condescending. I thought it was rude.

What are you shouting at?

Why are you this pressed? It was very disingenuous. I think, and that could be a whole other topic about Naseeha and correcting our sisters and looking out for the ummah. I did not watch that video and think that this person was actually looking out for our Muslim sisters. I think she was just triggered. I understand the content of it was correct.

no,

Right?

it's not

about, No,

no, I think I have to stop you. You, I don't care to have an opinion on how she, like, it's, I didn't, to me, it rubbed me the wrong way. Like, I didn't I didn't like it, but that's social media. Like, That's where, if she can do it anywhere, like That's the place where people feel that they can go out and

But it's not right.

the

No, but it's not right.

That's not how social

media is though. Like, how is it not right when specifically about, because of the way, like, there are people that related to her and I was reading through the comments for every person that didn't like what she said.

And. yes, I didn't necessarily like what she said, but I saw people who did like what she said. And. Again, we were taught like Lena was saying earlier, you scroll past. You unfollow,

Well, I understand.

is, but it's a

I

for

I understand that part. I understand that part. I think it was going to the girls that they accused of following certain trends, um, that other hijabi influencers were trying to normalize, and I understand like that there is a responsibility, uh, with especially hijabi influencers, which honestly I tread lightly.

I don't. I think it's really unfair to say she wears hijab. So she's supposed to be the model figure for the rest of the community. She's not preaching about Islam. She just happens to be a Muslim woman existing. And I don't know why, because she wears hijab all of a sudden, she is supposed to be the image that you're supposed to influence.

And now you have this heavy responsibility because if you don't wear your hijab correctly, other girls are going to follow you.

hijabi

influencers. No, no. Deanna, you're a hijabi influencer.

you just wear hijab

are

though,

influence.

but you're not.

you are selling

I understand that, but it's like, but there's some that don't. But

there's some that don't self hijack.

But 

Yeah, what if you just happen

I'm saying, you're just,

No, no, a lot, a lot of these influencers that started off. So it's one thing to be just somebody who's on social media that

Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

but like the hijabi Muslim modest wear

Mm hmm.

that I think were her target audience. I don't

Mm-Hmm.

it once and I

Mm-Hmm.

and

Mm-Hmm.

Mm hmm

me and my

Mm-Hmm.

Um, when you're a hijabi influencer trying to like preach modest hijab and the modest clothing, but then you do a ready with. And that's what she was talking about. Like your hijabs are on the wrong way. To me, it's to each

Yeah.

but like you, you are held to a different standard and that's what I was referring to earlier when you're a hijabi influencer, like we started, we're talking about people that we used to watch on YouTube, show us how to wear hijabs, uh, different ways, right.

Who eventually made it into the realm of, Instagram now and are more, um, These people like they're, they built their platform on teaching us how to wear hijabs and how to make our clothing more modest, etc. So they are held to a different standard

I think, I don't know. I just think it's so hard. , and I know that we're not like, judged on a curve, but we're also judged individually and, you could take the good, leave the bad a lot of times are just existing as hijabis. And I see what you mean because a lot of them do sell hijabs and that is they're part of their brand. But, um, it's just,

But they can also decide not to wear hijab

the thing. 

that's a

That's the thing too. And it's like, they can, I don't know. I just feel like putting all your stock into,

being

Or like,

they started out as hijabis,

have. But I have to say, and this might not, this might be an unpopular opinion, but a lot of people that built their platforms on being hijabi influencers and then took off their hijab to each of their

own. And I respect them. But to me, almost the first time it happened, it felt like a stab in

yeah,

because I, because I was like, Like, if it wasn't for you, I wouldn't have been so confident in

yeah.

Um, growing

that's not on, but that's that's on you though. In the end, like you put that much value in someone

And that goes,

you.

Growing 

right, right, right.

right. 

Like that's where, where I'm go back to the point where I say, this is a very hairy situation and you have a moral compass and like, It's dangerous. Like it's not like people look up to you, whether you like it or not.

And you let me tell you something, not whether you like it or not, you're banking on it. Like you want

This is true.

you. You want them to come to you. You want them to be able to be influenced by you to do that. Purchase things or do things

because that's how you're making

So that goes into , never idolizing anybody and seeing them as an idol to you and, uh, putting your faith dependent on someone else and how you choose to dress based on someone else. If it matches your goals and that's, that's your goal, then, you know, By all means, continue following if that's no longer matching your goal in life and that's going to set you back or it's triggering you or it's just, it's not helpful for you in your journey, you know, unfollow, 



  And when I say that the first time it was a stab in the back, I think growth within, as a viewer on social media was do not put any, and that's why for me, I don't have any. Celebrity shoo, like it's not, I

Yeah.

but I don't idolize them because I think as a younger generation person, I was young when I was following  the modest fashion influencers on YouTube, I was very young and I think that's where you're more susceptible to idolizing somebody and then feeling the whole betrayal aspect of it

Yeah.

And then as I grew and I became older now, and then that, that happened, right? So the initial like shock of, Oh my

God, this person, like, Listen, you think you're their best friend at one

Yeah. It's like,

it's called a

our

pair of social relationships where you, where you think you're, you're friends with them. You think you know them. You've seen them grow. You've seen them get married. You've seen them have babies. Like, you know, some of them, um,

it's a choice they make they make

yeah,

to share all this

yeah,

with us And we i'm saying this also with the lens of with us that have children on here We and we need to understand this when we see that our kids are following or watching these people But that all to then say I, I've come to a point where I don't idolize people on social media, but there are people who do, and there are people who idolize the shuyukh as well.

And that's very, there's, again, I think we talked about this at one

point, the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam didn't have any boys for the reason that we do not continue

idolize, exactly.

anyone after him, right? And so it's a thin line, this like there for everything that comes out of it, that it's, they

But I, I see what Deanna is saying. I feel like, and this kind of goes into the hijab thing, which is a whole

I mean, a whole

other episode on that.

I may have very unpopular, I have very unpopular views on hijab. I feel like there's a lot of pressure on hijab. So that let's say, you know, let's say tomorrow I want to become an influencer.

I happen to be a hijabi. I've been wearing hijab. Almost all of my adult life and I truly I love wearing hijab and I'm trying to be stylish and I you know I have all these cool things and inspires people and young

people maybe inspires my younger sisters and my inspire my

hmm.

Right, but let's say a long ten five ten years from

now I'm just not feeling like it's who it's not it's not My truth anymore, you know, it's not who I feel like it's my true self and so I decided that it's not for me But i've already established this platform of being

Mm hmm.

influencer And I maybe influence a lot of people including people like my sister or my daughter But I don't want to be hijab anymore.

And then What, what,

what, 

I will say,

I just stop completely? Should I say, look, I'm going to take it off and I'm going to tell you my story. This is how I feel. And I'm sorry if it offends anyone or hurts anyone, which I feel like that's kind of what

Mm 

They had this honest conversation. 

So, uh,  kind of touch on a little bit of the positives. There are a lot of girls on  uh, TikTok, uh, that were influenced by girls who started wearing hijab and they started on their journey and the way that they're wearing it and they feel more confident because they see these girls wear it.  And a lot of them will even admit that I started wearing it because of you. And even the ones that decided not to wear it, they're like, well, you know, you helped me put my foot in the door and now, you know, it's, it's on me. It's part of me now, you know, I'll take the good and, you know, you know, you're on a different journey.

I'm on a different journey, but I've, I've wanted to be here. I've got to where I wanted to be. And I took that. So  there is some positive influence in that, in that aspect. 

There is definitely positive. And we were talking about that, right? There's positive. I think 

 I think there's a responsibility that comes with being an influencer and we have, and again, the moral compass, like you have, you, there's a responsibility, responsibility, you could be promoting prime and prime ends up creating cancer.

Like 10 years down, 15, 20 years, they discover that prime is actually a carcinogen, right? They have some carcinogens in them. Like there's a responsibility that. being

on social media, guess what? It was your choice and guess what? You did it for the reason of making money probably. Um, and so I'm sorry if we're critical, You put yourself out there in that moment. You're the one trying to have a platform and you want to hear from people like I. I'm not one of those haters that goes out and like starts, I just scroll past, but I mean, you know that once you, you start becoming bigger and bigger on social media, that you're going to have people that agree with you or disagree with you.



Be careful who you follow. It's really up to you to do your due diligence, um, on who you waste your time or who you spend your time following. Um, because they may not actually align with your values. You have to take time to, to research who they are, what they stand for, you know, are they following Islam or not?

Um. At the end of the day, you're accountable for following them.

do

it. Minimize your influencers. Or be like me and Manal. We don't have any influencers. Oh actually, Manal, do you want to

So I had very little celebrity followers. I'm sorry. I had very few celebrities that I was following. There are no celebrities that follow me. I said that backwards. Um, uh, I followed the rock and then I followed the three Palestinian sisters in Texas. Y'all were laughing at me earlier and listen, the rock has more followers.

my god,

He has more followers than Kim Kardashian. Okay, so I followed him because of his discipline his products I mean his movie but his products between his drinks his movies his

He has drinks

And I, I appre, yeah, Dwayne in the Rock. I just appreciated it. Followed him. But then when he, um, did not support husband and fall scene, I unfollowed him very quickly

Womp

that's, even if he has great content, that's, that's the red line for me.

and we need to use that same logic for even our

Mm-Hmm.

And we don't, we know we shouldn't

Mm-Hmm.

giving them an

Mm-Hmm.

same logic, the quick unfollows that we went

Mm-Hmm.

that list. We need to make sure to do that. 



Having a podcast, you know, a lot of our opinions could have stayed between our friend group, but we're having a

podcast and we're talking about things on air. We know there's a responsibility that

hmm.

We, what, what are we trying to get at? What are, where are we going with this? 

Where are we going with this, guys? Let's wrap it up here and, you know, talk about why we even started this podcast.

 I  mean,

to me, I've had great conversations with you, Lina, in which we sometimes don't agree with the people in our circles, but we're having valid conversations.

hmm,

I don't agree with you, or I don't agree

mm

I don't agree with Manal, and we discuss things and we come to the conversation at the end where we have a better view of the problem. And maybe I've changed my mind, or you've changed your mind. Or we've agreed to stick on two different sides of an issue. And having safe spaces are very

hmm, mm hmm, mm hmm.

with people who have different opinions than you do. And I think even Lena, when you came to pick the people on this pod, you really did your due diligence.

Like I remember you think you asking me, Maryam, like, do you know anybody, which is when I brought in Manal, like with different outlooks on life. And I think we all have different outlooks on our lives and we don't always agree, but this is a safe space. for us to discuss. 

And let's, let's, let's give a shout out to, um, say Fanny

Safyani, which by the

Oh, no. Say Fanny. Not Sofiany.

I could say

Coffee shop.

Say Fanny.

Say funny.

Malik Miriam. Say Fanny.

Is that where, is that the birth, is that

That's where we met.

I screamed. That's

Oh, that's so nice.

 I screamed the name the other day.

Yeah, people were probably being

It is say funny.

Yeah. Allah. Oh

It's okay. People don't, don't remember that stuff. Don't worry.

Listen, can I tell you something? It's all about

It is all about confidence always. Absolutely. So what is,

is

Farah

downfall of people.

out.

Of course she isn't. 

She's threatening to put this out raw.

Of course she is. 

Call it Seyfani. Title of it. 

hate all of you.

Silence.

Um, especially Farah. Because of course, this is the one she's like, I'm not going to edit anything.

edit my laughs, please.

Um, okay.

what was our goal with this podcast? Seriously, like, we brought up Seyfani because that's where the birth of the podcast, I feel, happened. Me and Manny have been talking about it for a while. I know you've been talking about it with Menad for a while. But that day, I feel like the person that really made it happen was Farah. Because she's the producer

What?

Yes.

You better not take out this what?

No, my name is seriously, how many people say, I want to podcast. How many times do you have an actual producer who

says, Oh yeah, let's do it. 

I know. She was like, I will

do all of the back

truly. I

Because listen, um, me and Manal could have had a podcast two months, two months before this one did, but Manal was creating logos and I was like, Manal, like, we're not doing this. Like, there's no

knew you weren't today.

here we are. As

And then I recruited the Deanna, even though I really had very little relationship with her.

Yeah, no,

think I've

I never met you before.

real life.

Only via Instagram. Yeah. We have mutuals though.

Instagram actually let me let me tell you a real quick funny story before we wrap up so Deanna I still don't even know how I know her but One day I had posted on my Instagram that I'm looking for a dentist to come as a guest to my school To teach about you know dentistry in Arabic And she had shared that to her dental group and someone from that group came and reached out to me and said, Hey, I heard that you're this.

And I found that was from Deanna, which I thought was so nice because again, I don't even know her. And she went out and did that

It's like, I can help you.

me. And I don't, I don't, I don't

Oh,

nice.

like you didn't have to, and

That's nice.

So I already liked her from

Aw.

Just one, you know, and then, um, recently with Ghazda, I saw her post and they were just really

Thanks. It is. It

wow, you know, so I loved, I loved what she shared.

And so I was like, I'm going to reach out to Diane. It's a gamble, but

a gamble actually. So I'm, I feel very flattered.

Especially

She's a firecracker, but I like it.

Diana is apparently her and her controversial posts are on Reddit.

made it to write it. Y'all

Oh.

mama. We made it.

Did you just Google her or something?

Where she gets into it with influencers.

Yeah. I got blocked by one, I definitely made it. Yeah. 

Well, on that note, 

thanks for listening and make sure to like and subscribe.